Problem scanning color slides

[lesged]

I've hardly ever scanned 35mm slides. Recently, I've been looking at my trays of old color slides some over 50 years old Kodachromes. Almost all still retain their vivid colors associated with Kodachromes. When viewed on a light table using a loupe they are razor sharp and virtually grainless; the majority was taken with Leitz and Nikon lenses.

What puzzles me is why they look so dull and lack sharpness when scanned. I must be doing something very wrong. I question if the distance from the scanner's glass to the film plane in the cardboard mounts is wrong? The mounts look symmetrical with the film sandwiched between a frame made with two cutouts of same thickness of cardbord. I use the dedicated slide holder that came with my Epson 4180, but the slides essentially rest between the 4 square cutouts and lay on the glass surface, with some wiggle room. I tape the slide mount to the holder with very thin book mending tape, just on the cardboard, so there is no play.

I think I remember Craig saying quite awhile ago that his, then current, Epson scanner's 35mm slide carrier was very poorly designed.

I have aa Epson Perfection 4180 Photo scanner and use Epson Scan for initial graphic s/w with the following settings: positive film, 24 bit color, RGB, 1200 dpi

In preview, I select one the 35mm slides displayed. Then use zoom feature, but use: unmask sharpening, grain reduction, dust removal or color restoration. I click the icons for auto exposure and histogram adjustment and get extreme dark and light extremes inside the curve of the latter and eyeball best mid-tone. BTW, I always use these two adjustments for my b&w negatives, which make up the majority of my work.

Using only these first two of four possible adjustments at this stage make the color slide look pallid and dull. I tried the other two adjustments: tone correction with color in its icon and image adjustment also with a colored icon. Still the image looks not nearly as good as the color positives scanned from my Nikkor Coolpix 990 and Canon A720 IS l cameras would look at this stage. The last thing I did with color slide is export the best image I can make to Photoshop 7 to continue the workflow. Despite all the adjustments
possible with PS7, the image looks insipid and that is with a lot more work in Photoshop.

I would appreciate any comments about what I'm doing wrong and/or suggestions how to improve the work flow that will give me better results with a color slide which has correct exposure, good tonal range of well saturated colors.

Thanks in advance,

Les

[martolod]

what is the scanning software you are using,les?

(pee over a three foot fence?i'm half yer age and can't do it :thumbsup2:)

[martolod]

DUH.....:banghead:...... i should have read the post a little slower...
you are using the generic epson scanning software.
that could be 95% of you problem.
i would suggest you download the trial version of Vuescan
and give that a go.
i've got mine set up to do HDR like passes and i have had no problems.
when i was using Epson software i was less than impressed with the results.
the other option is treating the scan as raw file.
scan the image as a TIFF file, then do any adjustments in PS (Sharpness, curves,vibrance/saturation, briteness, the most common that i use)
and save the resulting edit as a jpeg, but keep the TIFF file as a source to work from.
i can't remember if the epson software will let scan as a tiff.....vuescan will certainly let you.
if you are interested in vuescan i can give the setting that i use....saves time in trying to discover them yourself.

[Mike Kovacs]

Turn off digital ICE (dust removal) if you have it.  It doesn't work properly with kodachromes and will give UGLY with a capital U slides.

[lesged]

Mike Kovacs,

In preview, I select one the 35mm slides displayed. Then use zoom feature, but use.: unmask sharpening, grain reduction, dust removal or color restoration I click the icons for auto exposure and histogram adjustment and get extreme dark and light extremes inside the curve of the latter and eyeball best mid-tone. BTW, I always use these two adjustments for my b&w negatives, which make up the majority of my work.

Note 1: Bold typeface added above indicates wrong words; the mistake I did not correct in editing.

What I meant to write was just the opposite. The second quote, below, has the correct words highlighted.

In preview, I select one the 35mm slides displayed. Then use zoom feature, [highlight]but I do not not use[/highlight]: unmask sharpening, grain reduction, dust removal or color restoration. I click the icons for auto exposure and histogram adjustment and get extreme dark and light extremes inside the curve of the latter and eyeball best mid-tone. BTW, I always use these two adjustments for my b&w negatives, which make up the majority of my work.

Note 2: It took a while to sink in why you thought I used the dust removal. I'm not sure, but think the dust removal in EpsonScan is not the same as ICE, or is that Minolta's copyrighted name for dust removal s/w? In any case, I never used the dust removal feature with EpsonScan and I don't think PS7 has it at all. Frankly, I'm blessed with no dust problems.

Was plagued with it during my wet processing years in my darkroom. Grounding enlarger helped a lot. Old Kodak broad soft-haired brush also did a fine job removing dust. So did the radioactive Staticmaster brush, which I thought was outlawed, but just found out is still for sale at $20 for 1” wide brush. And $35 for 3” wide brush..

http://www.optbinoculars.com/productList.aspx?uid=68-54

http://www.optbinoculars.com/product.aspx?pid=68-54-1818  for details re Polonium-210

Right in your wheelhouse. Ever tried one? Sure you could make one with safe amount of radio active material, when you get your darkroom set up.

[lesged]

martolod,

Thanks for your suggestions. I did download VueScan and would like to know your preferred settings for color slides, transfers from digital camera, if different and black and white 35mm and 120 rollfilm.

I tried to intuit how it worked, but the learning curve was very steep and slippery and I don't have my grampons anymore.

It may be better to do it via email, but if you think others can profit from your VueScan settings, by all means, put it here.

[martolod]

e-mail is on its way...:thumbsup2:
what i'll doo i''l send you screenshots
just copy the settings and you schould be right

[lesged]

Thank you martolod. Got your explicit information re VueScan, via email, and I will try your settings tomorrow.

OT re another thread. About the half my age and not being able to clear a 3 foot wall with a steady stream , hmm. That's hard to believe. Aren't you 6'9" tall?

It should be a a snap, gravity alone would make it all downstream, unless you have very short legs.

[martolod]

OT re another thread. About the half my age and not being able to clear a 3 foot wall with a steady stream , hmm. That's hard to believe. Aren't you 6'9" tall?

It should be a a snap, gravity alone would make it all downstream, unless you have very short legs.

6'8......but i drag my knuckles along the ground:D

[P C Headland]

Les

The Epson software should do fine. Worry about setting the levels right, and don't worry too much about colour casts or perceived sharpness - you'll sort that out in PS.  Scan in 48bit colour, not in 24 bit, and save as a TIFF file.

For 35mm slides, you really should scan at a minimum of 2400 dpi.  You can down-size it later, after you've done your spotting, adjusted the colour, checked levels and run a local contrast enhancement (USM: 20/50/0).  Do a sharpening pass at this size - experiment a bit with the settings.  Then resize and sharpen according to what you are going to do with the image - display on the web or print.

[lesged]

Thanks Paul for the color slide scanning tips. I'll try it for sure.  Haven't tried Martolod's method as yet. I'm used to Epson Scan and I'll try it first, but he gave me all the settings for VueScan and will try it out as well.

Will post both for comparison. but not today. I have the manana complex: Never do today what you can put off till tomorrow. Some call it ADD or AAADD. Or whatever the name is for having difficulty finishing projects, that's my malady. Been humming that malady for quite a while.

[Ben]

Not sure about Epson flatbeds Les, but I've never cared for the results from the 2 flatbeds I've owned (Canon and Microtek) for 35 chromes.  The Microtek works fine for medium and large format film, but for 35mm the dedicated 35 scanners that I've used were always better.  Like others, I also save/manipulate in TIFF.

I scan at 4000 dpi, double pass, ICE off, with my Coolscan.  It has a setting specific to Kodachrome, but I've scanned it with the "positive" setting before with good results too. I've used several versions of scanning software (silverfast, vuescan etc) but prefer the bundled Nikon software.

I know $$$$ can be a big factor, but you might look at picking up a dedicated 35 scanner.  I've had great success with Canoscans, and Nikon Coolscans.

[lesged]

Ben,

Thanks for tips and advice. BTW, what does double pass mean? I still don't know if ICE is a trademark name or can it be used genetically to mean any dust removal s/w--like Xerox those pages! or  Put it in the Fridge (daire)

I posted a Kodachrome in "The Eyes Have it" forum, titled Mexican guitar and its story using Paul Headland's suggestions using my scanner's  dedicated graphic s/w (Epson Scan.) The results are so-so.

I'll post it here, also, so other folks who made some comments can see it--my first try at posting a color slide-- and give their reactions and/or suggestions.

[melek]

Les, I should come up to your neck of the woods and spend a week teaching you all kinds of computer stuff.

That shot looks good. It really looks like something from the 1970s. I think I used to dress like the fellow on the left. And maybe the right. And maybe second from the right. But not the girl, however.

[lesged]

melek,

The welcome mat is out front. You'd have a tabula rasa to work with, as my mind is pretty blank re computers and digital workflow.

I learn best by watching another person doing a task. Well, I used to have that talent. That didn't apply to all types of tasks, especially repairing cameras.